{"id":27077,"date":"2020-08-10T15:40:42","date_gmt":"2020-08-10T12:40:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/forklog.com\/en\/?p=27077"},"modified":"2025-08-26T18:39:27","modified_gmt":"2025-08-26T15:39:27","slug":"debate-over-ethereum-issuance-flares-again-in-the-crypto-community","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/debate-over-ethereum-issuance-flares-again-in-the-crypto-community\/","title":{"rendered":"Debate over Ethereum issuance flares again in the crypto community"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Debates about Ethereum&#8217;s supply limit, ongoing since 2015, have gained new momentum after MakerDAO developer Marc-Andr\u00e9 Dumas released a script that outputs the size of the issuance of the second-largest cryptocurrency.<!--more--><\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">My ethsupply script was counting some uncle rewards twice, which led to the discrepancy. Many thanks to <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/junderwood4649?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@junderwood4649<\/a> for identifying the bug and everyone else who reviewd the code.<\/p>\n<p>As you will see below, the delta with Etherscan is now only 3 ETH.<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/dnDFTs6YlO\">https:\/\/t.co\/dnDFTs6YlO<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/NxKHeSSTow\">pic.twitter.com\/NxKHeSSTow<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Marc-Andr\u00e9 Dumas (@marcandu) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/marcandu\/status\/1292099399980593154?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Dumas initially reported 112.43 million coins, but later revised the estimate to 112.093 million, narrowing the gap with Etherscan data to 3 ETH.<\/p>\n<p>Other resources, such as Messari, Coinmetrics, Coingecko and Blockchair, showed different figures.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-conversation=\"none\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">I didn\u2019t believe so I just tested<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/0CbDOSTduf\">https:\/\/t.co\/0CbDOSTduf<\/a> 112086620<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/Q4zY8cc4Wn\">https:\/\/t.co\/Q4zY8cc4Wn<\/a> 112429827<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/fnj6CHINYs\">https:\/\/t.co\/fnj6CHINYs<\/a> 112086460<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/erY12BzMDC\">https:\/\/t.co\/erY12BzMDC<\/a> 112086233<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/QN07Qj7Yn0\">https:\/\/t.co\/QN07Qj7Yn0<\/a> 109372852<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/jbz6GeQXWk\">https:\/\/t.co\/jbz6GeQXWk<\/a> 112086403<a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/FCBjIASD6J\">https:\/\/t.co\/FCBjIASD6J<\/a> 111,743,459<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Leon, the fact checker (@factcheckmypost) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/factcheckmypost\/status\/1291863378793828359?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 7, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Answering the question of why such discrepancies occur, Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin suggested that some blockchain explorers exclude coins that were \u201cburned\u201d in smart contracts. Others, in his view, are \u201ctoo lazy\u201d to do so.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-conversation=\"none\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">My best guess is that some explorers are subtracting coins that got destroyed due to contracts getting self-destructed while holding coins and others were too lazy to do that and just looked at uncle rewards?<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VitalikButerin\/status\/1291893572979941378?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Unlike Ethereum, Bitcoin holders can avoid relying on blockchain explorers and obtain the sought value by calling bitcoin-cli in a full node client.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">It is a trivial task to verify the Bitcoin monetary supply using bitcoin-cli with your own full node. <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/KMMXeE5ytf\">pic.twitter.com\/KMMXeE5ytf<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Michael Goldstein (@bitstein) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/bitstein\/status\/1291385603808993281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 6, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>The discrepancy in ETH issuance data understandably drew criticism from Bitcoin maximalists. Among them was even a senior Visa executive. He described Ethereum as a middle ground between Bitcoin, with its fixed issuance, and the dollar, where issuance is not capped.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">Bitcoin: unchangeable supply<\/p>\n<p>Ethereum: unknown supply<\/p>\n<p>U.S. dollar: unlimited supply <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/Bitcoin?src=hash&#038;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Bitcoin<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/Ethereum?src=hash&#038;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#Ethereum<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/search?q=%24USD&#038;src=ctag&#038;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">$USD<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Andy Yee (@ahkyee) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ahkyee\/status\/1291920464659402752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Against the backdrop of the heated debate over ETH\u2019s true issuance, Vitalik Buterin presented a chart of transaction fees over the past two months. He noted that fees were high, but after the activation of <a href=\"https:\/\/medium.com\/@eric.conner\/fixing-the-ethereum-fee-market-eip-1559-9109f1c1814b\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">EIP-1559<\/a>, staking rewards in such cases could be fully offset. EIP-1559 contemplates that part of the fees collected will be burned, thereby limiting inflation.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">I love how people have been so awkwardly trying to press ethereum on its lack of a preset \u00ab21 million\u00bb-like hard cap, when transaction fees the past 2 months have been high enough to more than fully cancel out PoS rewards post-EIP 1559. <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/TuyZMotacu\">pic.twitter.com\/TuyZMotacu<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VitalikButerin\/status\/1291869925863129088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 7, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Another discussion was started by Blockstream strategic director Samson Mow. He asked whether limiting issuance is a security vulnerability for the blockchain. Buterin answered in the affirmative, noting that the mechanism would not guarantee rewards.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">If the chain dies, the coin dies. So IMO ensuring a minimum level of security of the chain, through a minimum coin issuance (which can be clawed back with EIP 1559-like techniques if there\u2019s usage), is the correct path.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VitalikButerin\/status\/1291907848234909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>According to the Ethereum co-founder, the right approach is to minimise coin issuance, with EIP-1559 adopted. In his view, this could achieve the minimum level of network security.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">If the chain dies, the coin dies. So IMO ensuring a minimum level of security of the chain, through a minimum coin issuance (which can be clawed back with EIP 1559-like techniques if there\u2019s usage), is the correct path.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VitalikButerin\/status\/1291907848234909696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>On the question of what this minimum value is, Buterin replied that it is a matter of intuition. He suggested that this is how Bitcoin\u2019s creator Satoshi Nakamoto determined issuance, the halving schedule and the block size. Accordingly, the intuitive approach also yields the gas-limit cap in the Ethereum network.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">Dunno, intuition? The same technique you use to determine 1 MB, and ethereum miners use to determine the 12.5m gaslimit, and Satoshi used to pick the 4 year halving schedule\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/VitalikButerin\/status\/1292125655853801472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Also joining the discussion was Morgan Creek Digital co-founder Anthony Pompliano. He called the lack of a clear Ethereum issuance figure a major problem; in Pompliano\u2019s view, this prevents ETH from being regarded as \u201cgood money.\u201d<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">The Ethereum community can\u2019t figure out what the total outstanding supply of the asset is.<\/p>\n<p>This is a MAJOR problem and showcases why ETH is not good money.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll be explaining Monday morning.<\/p>\n<p>Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/29uk453dzh\">https:\/\/t.co\/29uk453dzh<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Pomp \ud83c\udf2a (@APompliano) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/APompliano\/status\/1292090029028900865?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Pompliano explained that he holds this view because he does not subscribe to the message \u201cEthereum is money.\u201d<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">To be clear, I don\u2019t think Ethereum is bad. It is serving a different purpose. My point is that ETH is not good money, which contradicts the new \u201cETH is money\u201d narrative that some have been trying to push<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Pomp \ud83c\udf2a (@APompliano) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/APompliano\/status\/1292092565559410688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">August 8, 2020<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Discussions about limits on the issuance of the second cryptocurrency have not started yesterday. Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin already forecast in 2016 that the amount of ETH would not exceed 100 million coins in the foreseeable future.<\/p>\n<p>In May this year, Buterin said that annual Ethereum issuance was expected to fall from the current 4.7 million coins to a corridor of 100,000\u20132 million after the transition to the Proof-of-Stake consensus.<\/p>\n<p>Subscribe to ForkLog news on VK!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Debates on Ethereum&#8217;s supply limit, ongoing since 2015, have gained new momentum after MakerDAO developer Marc-Andr\u00e9 Dumas released a script that outputs the size of the issuance of the second-largest cryptocurrency.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":27078,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"select":"1","news_style_id":"","cryptorium_level":"","_short_excerpt_text":"","creation_source":"","_metatest_mainpost_news_update":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[46,1258,200],"class_list":["post-27077","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-and-analysis","tag-ethereum","tag-tokenomics","tag-vitalik-buterin"],"aioseo_notices":[],"amp_enabled":true,"views":"27","promo_type":"1","layout_type":"","short_excerpt":"","is_update":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/27077","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=27077"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/27077\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":27079,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/27077\/revisions\/27079"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/27078"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=27077"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=27077"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/u1f987.com\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=27077"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}